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Lightbox Stories & Literacy Programming for Students with Complex Profiles

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Presented by Dr. Adam Wilson on 2/17/2021 Unity Virtual Academy 2020-2021 Session Description: Looking for ways to integrate literacy and lightboxes? In this session we will take a deep dive into the creation of lightbox stories and digital books, adapted so they are accessible for students with more complex profiles that include VI. We will also look at opportunities for meaningful engagement for learners so they become part of the story!

Show Transcript

awesome I'll text you our office alright well thank you and Rachel thank you so much for having me how everyone I hope wherever you are you're safe and you're staying warm I've seen the news I know it's called where many of you are today and so I hope you're safe and thank you for turn for tuning in my name is Adam Wilton and I am an itinerant teacher students with visual impairments and a certified orientation and Mobility specialist by Trey I currently work in the administration I'm the manager of the provincial resource center for the visually impaired in British Columbia Canada and so this Century that I manage is mix between an estate instructional material resource center and Outreach type programming that you might get from our School for the Blind we don't have it go for the blind here in British Columbia all of our students are Daya itinerant staff and so I managed the program that supports those teachers and also produces ultimate format materials and so this presentation actually has a alternate format flavor to it so I'm kind of bring some of that expertise into it into it as well I should also mention that everything that I'm sharing with you today I've either gathered through Outreach trips working one-on-one with colleagues and their students or just through my own experience as an itinerant tvi and so everything that I'm going to share with like I said is really steeped in in practice and is pretty functional I mean for those of you can see my camera like I got craft supplies everywhere in my office so I like to think that that speaks to the approach that I ring when I'm presenting on on these topics dinner thing I want to mention as well right off the top is that when I design lightbox story I'm not designing for any one specific population of I'm in mind you'll notice that I've use kind of a generic Title Here students with complex profiles that could also say students with complex profiles that includes visual impairment or blindness and the reason I do that is because you know when we're adapting literacy materials you know that has such a wide appeal and you everything that everything that we're doing is is is hopefully going to be engaging and meaningful to students with a number of different profiles so I have been asked in the past like oh is that a CDI strategy and I'll say yes bi strategy strategy it's all so you know I'm hydrocephalus strategy and so now as is the custom here in British Columbia I will start with an acknowledgement of indigenous territory so I'm presenting to you today from the traditional and unseated territories of the musqueam sale a tooth & Co Squamish peoples until I gratefully acknowledge that I am able to be with you today from their ancestral lands alright let's look at what we're going to cover an overview I really would like this to be a very pragmatic presentation and so I've got a few slides that are packed with points that we can unpack together so first and foremost I want to go through the why what and the width of light box. and of literacy programming for students with more complex profiles in general and I'm also going to address PowerPoint stories which is not something that I typically get into I'm in any of the other presentations that are online that I that I do on this topic some of you may have seen my lightbox story presentations through the Excel Academy early in 2020 I also did a presentation for eph on this topic which is similar but different than what we're going to cover today and then I also collaborated with Charlotte at what's the literacy to put together a page on lightbox stories on the path to literacy site and I'm going to be doing I know keeping accessibility in mind going to be doing image descriptions throughout the presentation and so on the right side of your screen you got a photo of a light box with a spinner attached and in the foreground there is a mess of what I can tell you was very very stale special play serial Corn Flakes Corn Flakes and a copy of edges Ezra Jack Keats the snowy day and so I included this here to kind of show you you you know when you're not there when the lights are on and the Reebok story is over this is the kind of fun artifact of of your work with students left behind a mountain of expired Corn Flakes which only minutes earlier had been crunchy falling snow all right, move on to the next Super Duper excessive but I will definitely send that to Rachel for sure all the photos in here are just ones that I've taken of my own process so happy to share this alright so let's start with the rationale for a lightbox Tori and I actually like to think of lightbox stories is not just a strategy but I mindset and I always one of these days I'm going to reach out to Diane and get her actual quote on this because I've been paraphrasing her in the past but but I think what she said at the getting in touch with literacy conference in 2011 perfectly encapsulates what we want to get out of literacy experiences for students that are that that take place that are that are mediated through the light box and so dr. Warmsley was talking of course about I am able approach in this presentation and the the point that she was making was a very profound one and it was actually one that I took back from that conference and and kind of had in the back of my find as I was starting to develop lightbox stories and so essentially how we think and communicate about our student with others impact how we and others interact with the student but we think of the student as a reader will interact with them as a reader and what does approach does is it presumes confidence among our Learners from the outset so we're not kind of expecting that students will show us the competent we're coming to that literacy engagement assuming that this is a competent engage student who has a lot to express and is curious about the world because I mean all students are curious about the world in their own way even if we think of it just you know as a information gathering and making sense of that information example that I like when I when I use this code an example I like to give I was working with a team years ago and this is a student with optic nerve hypoplasia but also a multiple complex disabilities who you know I was on on for a ball she had a fairly at a fairly regimented carrot routine at school and before we did lightbox stories I would listen to how the team interacted with the student and there were points in the day where the student really was part of the part of the communication Exchange in the environment I think of for example when students are tube fed and they might need to hang out on the backs for Ida. At a time one thing I know after we started doing lightbox story is that the educational assistant started talking to the student about what was happening and if it was happening next and they were seeing that student as someone who was gathering information who was making me not the extent to which we weren't always entirely sure but this is why I like to think of lightbox stories are the mindset because it changes it has the potential and strategies like it change how we think about how we think about Learners and in term act towards them thinking about my box Doritos literacy program at sorry I did not describe the image slide slide we've got a a cutout figure of a story character on a lightbox and they are I believe at the beach here and so. I've got an A P H early Matt superimposed over that character with different oil orange and yellow oil kind of superimposed in the background okay I mean don't back into my PowerPoint here okay so thinking of light box stories as literacy programming it's also I think useful to think of Life Box doors at The Forum at this is a for a literacy form in the way that you do Braille in large print MP3 epub.pdf light box you heard it here first folks not there's a file extension for it I haven't flight time to the lake. Lght format. But this is a format for literacy materials and it's accessible not only in the of the images and the beer. The sensory character risks of the materials that we chose it's also accessible in its you know it it's in its design I need it's a light box it's big it is a tangible structured work space for students it's really concrete it's backlit we can control the possibly we could you know what those lovely dials there now that the now that aph has the LED light boxes they're not going to cut off the circulation to your legs if you got them in your lap cuz I mean come on TV eyes we've all been there holding up those great big you those beautiful yellow light boxes the other piece that that's it you know important here is that a lightbox story is literacy A literacy strategy has look sound and feel of a literacy activity and this can be an important interface point for peers and other team members who may not understand the unique sensory access requirements of that I'm so let's say for a student let's say for example you have a student with a cortical sorcery build a jewel impairment well identification assistant or a pier whose  interacting with that with that student may not understand all of the nuances of Epi strategy however a lightbox story has maintained the look and feel of a story and so is there but there's an interface point that ability to draw others into the students orbit and on the right side hear you've got a image of a bear from the that's not my bear story Block Story and it's kind of scared but he's framed by two socks in silhouette because this is where the bear is trapped in the clothes Pile in the closet All Right Moving On 4 piece that didn't occur to me at the outset but became evident as I worked with students and and and and their lightbox programs is that a lightbox story can be used as an assessment tool as well and it can be used effectively because here you've got you know you've got us an instructional scenario that is not unlike what students may be dancing in their day-to-day life box program so you got those opportunities for authentic assessment also ongoing data collection that that other team members can participate in so you know if you're looking at the light visual fixation for high contrast materials well you can have an educational assistant looking at that latency time between first presentation of the sly and when the child 6/8 or the student fix or orient's towards the lightbox so there's a lot of opportunities here to to not only gather important functional Vision that information but also to so in an authentic Constant Contact that invites and engages other members of the educational team and when you think about what the difference is that were varying in a lightbox story contrast color size movement or big Dimensions that I typically very in a lightbox story but there are others correspondingly week look at this dude the visual behaviors fixation tracking gay switching responses to contrasting color I mentioned before responses to changing and lighting you know I work for the student and under so I hear you got a picture of a story character who's fallen into a river until you've got a blue overlay and then a wine D cut out opaque windy cut out overlay the character behind and I had a student who his favorite litebox stories were the ones where characters were hiding behind something and then there be a sudden change in manasa tea when that that opaque overlay was pulled up so let's now get into that was kind of the Y let's get in now to the house turn on this light we've got a light box green and just a really simple display from I think also that's not my bear where you got a cut out of a simple cut out of a story character a transparency of a cartoon brown bear I meant I got a couple of Dimensions here plot settings and characters and how to make some suggestions on how you can make suggestions sorry how you can select materials to use in your lightbox Dory at the last piece here when you're selecting stories to adapt for the light box is of course interest and that I would have what else that is it that might not necessarily be just on story interest so if your student for example is a big fan of red and yellow well I might select store where I can really amp up that contrast and include red and yellow in that story I mentioned before student who really got to really enjoy it kind of felt like I was like he loves the reveal he loves the grand reveal and so I would have stories where there there was a character being you don't jumping out of something or being revealed let's get into some some plot setting and character points with the story plot I find that the best stories to adapt for light for the lightbox are linear in that they have a very clearly. find beginning middle and end stories that our Journeys are best so if we think of some of the more like you know archetypal fairy tale type stories like you know Goldilocks and the Three Bears you know these are these are stories that have clear sequences may be an even better example might be the Three Little Pigs where you got kind of like a journey and a progression through I find it's challenging on the lightbox to adequately represent sudden shifts in storyline so if you're if you're in one location and then all of a sudden you're like 5 years from now on the planet Mars like that's a big switch so both from a comprehension perspective but also from a representational perspective that's tricky to manage so I prefer stories that are linear for when they have again this is a nod to my you know all my deaf blind interventionist out there waiting for pension strategies where students are involved in activities that have clear beginning middle and end segments I think it's also important in my experience it's also important to identify key story elements that ensure a cohesive narrative and so there are some stories that where you might have life you might have like a little side like a little side tail going on and this can be even you know this could be complicated or can be right down to the level of like I don't know those little critter books Universe Little Critter you getting after yeses those Mercer Mayer book they were the main story and then in the pictures that little mouse was always doing something that's what I mean by this is that on the lightbox story you really only want to have one story happening at a time so I'm going to just in the way that I would maybe not describe what that most was doing if I was doing a accessible read aloud for student I'm also not going to include that in I represent that sorry in my life box tortoise clear linear cohesive narrative that doesn't have a lot of time shifting or contacts shifting and also that you know is it's really a cohesive story arc rather than you know. All these little kind of side diversion as entertaining as he maybe it also is important to consider how the story centers the experience of the reader and so does the reader have the same perspective as a story character is the is the reader a part of the story is the reader accept expected to be on Nishant and seeing three things that characters are not this sounds like kind of an advanced concept but when you think about children's stories this can sometimes be complicated for students in terms of how what is the what is the readers involvement here you know I would contrast for example like a Berenstein Bears book where the characters do not typically speak to the reader in the story unfolds almost with the reader as an audience versus like a Mo Willems pigeon book where the reader is expected to engage with the with the story character also don't want to take Weber Granite if I say don't Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus everybody knows I'm talking about right I've seen your face Rachel so I'm like okay today I work with children's lip but you are getting a few youngsters in the shower again want to make sure that I'm not making any like weird Canadian references that nobody guess so and then the other the other thing that's in that I would kind of suggest as a potential strategy is if you do have a story that  too just loves but you want to adapt it for the lightbox but it involves a lot of like perspective shifting or like so-and-so said said said one thing and another thing you can use movement to identify who has focus in the story so I'll do that sometimes where there's a bit of dialogue between two elements and all kind of move them and in this in the the image here you've got a screenshot from a video of a lightbox story and this is definitely from that's not my bear and the bear is talking to bed you got the the bear overlay image and then overlay on overlaid on top of that is a Blackline Master image of a bit and then I think the to the to the top corners are you can see you'll see those are my what are my hands always work love when I do lightbox stories because I don't want anything about my hands to be at all distracting I want them to be as like I was just being a nondescript as possible although it interesting I got questions about my gloved hand all the time so it end up having to reverse the opposite effect I guess gloves and the other reason I use gloves as well as they were for some of my students for some of my deaf blind learners well if I were to put my gloves on with a student's hands they knew that what was cut they knew that we were going to have a story because they were they were apart of because if you can't see the camera I'm kind of wishing my two Palms together when a one hand being my hand one hand simulating the students and where they are a part of me putting on those gloves because that was a feeling that part I don't you think one Lerner in particular that was really Salient for her was those was my my gloves she's always really curious but my hands were doing okay moving on story setting okay so that really cheap art with setting is that elements to be distinguishable based on Dimension size color and the really what I mean here is that with if you're going if your characters are going a house that the house is very clearly different visually Salient the differences are visually Salient between the house and let's say the supermarket. The doctors might go to in act one or two scenes down the road I usually use simplified Blackline Masters and add color after the fact a lot of this starts with just some really detailed Google image searching now always with the Creative Commons filter on in your advanced settings but I'm using Blackline Master images because they're clean simple and I don't have to do a lot of editing to remove detail from them and then I'm just printing those directly onto transparencies and then in the case of the house would you see on the it here I just hand-colored it in not always the best option often I'll just add color in Microsoft Paint and then run the mock is one thing that you'll notice on the house is that my wonderful coloring has left some some some some some very clear coloring marks there's a very clear marker marks and so is her wanting to be really clean especially if I'm approaching this from an assessment perspective and I I want to understand you know what they have a student reacts to certain color contrast I want to make sure those those colors are big bold and consistent and then you on the right side you got snowflake which is a little too real for some people right now and again I'm just using simple Blackline Masters and I also I miss is somewhat count intuitive to some of what we would typically use with students I don't use like I don't like hair got a pair of scissors I don't generally don't use like real objects because you can't see for real Jack's they don't behave well on a white box that the only time I'll use real objects is where their silhouette is very recognizable and would add something to the students understanding of the story could you understand for a from a lightbox perspective this is going to be backlit so none of the details are going to be visible to the student regardless of their Acuity level and it's the other piece about selecting stories for the light box is I like when the setting is Meaningful and not just a background for the story so the thing I like to tell my colleagues is like pick stories that have settings that matter not like Fred Flintstone walking down the street in this episode of the Flintstone and the background just get recycles itself as he's walking along the try not to pick those up Flintstone background stories because then then the everything that's on the light box has some meaning to the story and isn't just kind of there taking up space are there any are there any specific markers that are easier to use than others couple of things on this I I will generally use whiteboard markers they will smear if you're not careful but they I find them to be a little bit especially when they're not like when they're brand new they're even wouldn't use something like like those does mr. sketch those for smelly markers cuz it beats the ink can bead on the plastic and that just I mean that's a nightmare you know you look like you just robbed a bank covered in blue or purple or something and yes you can also run off photos on clear acetate but you could use paper as well and you know I'm actually trying just from an environment perspective I'm trying to get off the transparencies I'm doing my best trying to decrease my Reliance on single-use Plastics although it's interesting a lot of these things aren't single-use like I actually have some down here like this tree I'm holding I can't really I can't really see it very well I put my hand up to it this this tree without leaves I have used this in the snow day I've used this on you know when going on a bear hunt and felt you haven't seen a lot of action to I should mention that do I have so many of these is I do two stories a month for our kids here in British Columbia as part of my Outreach and so I've got a kind of a growing Bank of these things yeah they're really not hard to put together and you know if you're if you're a crafty person there they're perfect you know I I always joke at conferences at a conference is in our field Rachel I say do you know well there's a room full of people who are going to know exact where the closest dollar store is okay conscious the time and I want to leave opportunity for questions I'm just going to get to keep moving on through next I've got Story characters I'm so something that's important in my opinion is to make sure that your Story characters can all be reflected on the lightbox don't have any 15 characters you know. That really becomes a complicated process and also if your if the story narration is not referring 100% to what's happening on the box then you're kind of sending that student mixed messages about what the goal of this activity is so yeah on the on the screen consistency is key in terms of those same characters making appearances either reappearing in the story or that you might have the same character throughout that's why I love those Journey stories there is there tends to be on a journey. plot one character or group of characters that you see throughout the book and so from a comprehension inconsistency perspective I really I really like that I kind of mentioned this earlier slide but you can use movement to denote Focus I'm your the character speaking and that's where the students attention should shift relative size and scale of characters should likely be adjusted because example I commonly use of Clifford okay so Clifford Emily Ann is this little tiny character and Clifford is this great big red dog well if you had Emily Ann and Clifford to scale on a lightbox I don't a student with a cutie lost is going to be able to see Emily Ann with any degree of certainty so you may have to play with size and scale information in order to make sure that your lightbox story element accessible on the slide here I've got a screenshot of an aph light box spinner with the polka dot overlay and the in a red overlay just incidentally oh my goodness those are spinner overlays from a pH amazing I love those things and so that's what you see there and in this case I'm using the spinner to represent the Title Character bought in bumpy rolls away I also use the spinner to denote movement I did a book a couple weeks ago called Tommy snow suit this is from the author Robert Munsch who is like the Canadian kids book author I don't know if y'all have heard he wrote The Paper Bag Princess does that ring a bell anybody think so yeah he's he's big he's he's huge up here anyway, the snow suit feature is a features of a cheating scene where Thomas puzzles with somebody to get a snowsuit on cuz you don't want to do it and so I put the two characters in the white box and then splits are in the spinner and then spun the spinner and that was my consistent way of showing this action and so that's when I say consistency so if you're representing this story element like like I said the struggle to get the snow suit on if it if it's a repeating story element which many of these children's books have I'm going to represent that in the same way across the story offered for consistency sake alright another death line shutout so instead of do with not for you've got read with not too and the goal here really is engagement over entertainment and the reason that I always like to emphasize this point is I think is pdi's we've all been in that situation where you know a student is in a busy classroom and at times of the day they might just be wheeled up to a computer to you know watch a Bluetooth Blue's Clues clip or something on on YouTube and and I say that because you know here the are the goal is the engagement of the learn or not the entertainment at the Lerner for the learner and I'm designing these stories so that they are understandable there by the stew but really and truly I'm delighted if they're engaged and you know comprehension is always the goal but if we if we don't get there. Doesn't mean we stop doing stories it just means that you don't wear it where look for bring gauge mint and engagement can take many different forms in a lightbox story first and foremost if you have a student who you know is is not manipulating items and is not is working on being able to communicate their their their desires then you know a story that reflects what you know about that students preferences that's it that's engagement right there not only is that going to be engaging for the learner but that also communicates to the rest of the educational team that yes what this student likes about the world matters in how program for them that their color preferences matter their movement press preferences matter and so on you can also had a student that I worked with who really love to be in control at the store and so she would she would use a switch to advance the story now I was advancing the story but I was going I was that was contingent on her use of the switch now some people might disagree with that cuz I know I have had colleagues if they like if the switch doesn't directly control something then your you know that may be a little eccentric but in this case I mean this. I just really like to be able to turn the page so to speak I'm using their clothes there other ways of engaging students if if you know this is within their profile as a learner is to have them hold on to one or two different story elements and place it when that's two that character comes is referred to again in the story so if the one of the reasons why I use do I have an example of she rocks I do so this was another thing I like to use I know I know plastic guys are but these are really cheap lighting shells that I get online and they're perfect because I can cut them up but they're also tangible enough to wear as you know a student is going to want to hold on to them so I use these for some of the pieces that a student might want to put might want to control and put down on the on the lightbox story incidentally these aren't like these are really easy Define they're just like just a little thicker than that of transparency and but they're but in that they're a little bit more the other little bit more substantial in terms of changing the with a student okay all right now the next thing I want to talk about now are there any lightbox story questions that are like that we really want to address right now because I'm going to kind of switch gears and get into screen share stories Wheel of Time at the end for sure for question so just if any there's any burning ones type of story that I do with a screen share story and it was really interesting when I first did this on for the Excel Academy people were like they were amazed that you could do this and Anna all address the copyright considerations of this on the next slide but yeah so let's let's talk about this animated PowerPoint files I use PowerPoint you can use Keynote and all of the images are animated and so I can control the direction the speed the frequency if there's something that you know. reappears I always select a solid high contrast background and select visual Target so this is not a Verbatim representation of what the story book page looks what I've done is I've used clipart and a Snipping Tool that's built into Windows to grab images from scans of the book pages of the book and then you said that Snipping tool to who's the background so that I've got that that so that polka dot face you see on this slide this purple slide with a number of kind of distractor fishing fish and then you've got the polka dotted fish there after that from a scan of the page and when I do my my screen share stories I also make sure that the narration includes both image description and action description as well just so you know modeling that accessibility piece all the way through now the one thing that people always ask me about is can I do this and my my advice let me just click back into the PowerPoint here understand your copyright legislation find out what's possible in terms of the production of alternate format materials in can and I believe it's similar in the US the production of an alternate format of a copyrighted material is permitted if there is no commercially available option in the format that's required by so because you know there are not simplified digital versions of story books that contain image description and you know simplify back Browns and what not this is I consider this an alternate format material also I'm using these with my own students you know there's no there's no kind of commercial advantage to doing this and but one thing I would definitely recommend is just you know talk to your instructional material resource center talk to the people who create the ultimate formats in your state or community and just make sure that this is this this would qualify as an alternate form at version but when you think about it this is what is making this story accessible for the student because like let's say the student is a switch user you know a audiobook of that a commercially available audiobook or even an Epub may not be Advanced cible using a switch ultimate Digital versions of books are often a direct representation of the print version will in this case I don't want the busy background for the student right I don't want I want the simplest background for for students so when I'm designing PowerPoint stories I'm designing them for both sensory access and possibilities for student interaction and engagement and I got you know I I've had lots of them when I do my lightbox stories with my students are British Columbia I often asked if everyone's comfortable if they could turn on their camera so I can see what students eyes are doing all their orienting to this and yeah I can definitely see different reactions to different types of movement or different color contrasts and it's really it's fascinating and really exciting to see and so yeah these are the I called him screen share stories but really they're animated PowerPoint files that include element story elements from the print version of the of the book the yes oh I think that I know that we had I wanted to leave time for discussion Rachel so I believe that is the and yes that's the end so thank for having me stay warm out there I throw my email address up here if you want to reach out be in touch and you can also find me on Twitter at the TV I underscore Adam and so yeah are there any like ice reply questions comments student stories love those students stories and I'm just going to bring up the chat here so I can see that I just have to say I never even thought about perk of doing things virtuals that we can look directly at our students while we're teaching them to be able to prestige were normally side-by-sides Ewing look at them to see. Cecil Expressions their ideas like that idea I hope that when we're out of virtual learning being our routine we can add that to our toolbox yeah and you know it's it's I first I first noticed this when I first noticed this when a teacher colleague of mine said you know really want you to have a look at what my students doing the next time you do a lightbox story and I was like oh yeah I mean I just like seeing all these all these smiling students but like yeah there's actually some some spasm functional Vision assessment Donuts to this for sure and then the more I did it the more I realize that like yeah I know there's a there's a lot I actually did a I did a sequence of Outreach visits virtual Outreach visits with the student and we we took elements from her favorite stories and did increasing melee more complex screen share stories and but our the the dependent variable if you would like the thing that we were looking out for watching for was the visual latency peace and whether or not how she was able to manage increased complexity in the display and you know because we grow knocked out the time like it it it really blew her educational team away because here they went from having a student with profound multiple exceptionalities who who is Data with I really like stories and anecdotes all I saw her do this one that one that's like that's universally appealing I think Jennifer respond to your comment yes light book stories are similar to like a flannel board type Dory except here where we have greater control over those those that the features of the visual environment that we can vary based on our students profile so we can control lighting we can control how transparent thing the items the other nice thing as well with the light boxes that got so many different Tools in our tool box like the spinner and like those cut out overlays that we can kind of just combine them in unique ways but the other nice thing about the light boxes at from the outset is that we have a we have a high degree of control over the visual environment related to the activity yeah but yeah absolutely be there like somewhat akin to to felt board stories or kind of like little feet it's almost like theater it's like little Puppet Theater but we're you know we're we're we're putting it in a format that is consistent what we know about our students sensory profile Aunt Melinda that's an excellent question something I've not thought of but we'll light box or a benefit students for the visual impairments in a developmental classroom Hey listen I don't see why not so much of what we do in our field is absolutely essential for our students are blind and visually impaired but good for everybody and if you got a student who could benefit from a stories that are controlled in terms of their complexity in terms of their appearance in terms of the visual you know the size complexity color contrast all those things you got students who could benefit from that absolutely eyes I see this being a potentially useful for them yeah also going back to this with the point of a from the outside if you got a student who really want to change the narrative about that student and you you want that's doing to be seen as a reader as someone who is you know actively engaged in literacy programming I bought stories you no great way to to do that don't someone nice way in my experience as well to shift a to ship away from an exclusive Reliance on what we used to call like sensor are visual stimulation programs you know where it's more just about like the sensory experience but devoid of like like comprehension and so it's a nice way to kind of bridge between those type of car grams and literacy programs as well all right for those who need it the closing code is literacy So and I've also included the link again for the survey survey feedback on this session and other things you like for thank you so much Adam I learned a lot today so you know I always enjoyed so

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